Architectural Designs - Expired lease but no owner?

Expired lease but no owner?

Hi, I have recently run into a situation in which i don't know how to solve. I free leased a horse from some friends of mine last year until last month. The horse has lived at my house for over a year where i have provided all the care for him and paid all the expenses. The horse was neglected before i leased him no vaccines, no records no tooth care no foot care people fed the horses only when they felt like it or when they had the extra money. I bought there other horse from them so he is legally mine. Since i have leased the horse they have moved out of state actually like 4 states away and have very little to no contact with me about the horse. The horse was suppose to leave last month at the end of the lease but they have made no attempts or plans to move him. Even though i have contacted them and they ignore me. During the course of the lease i tried several times to buy the horse but they would not sell him. Now all of his vet records are in my name and his registration papers have never been sent in from the breeder and i have them in possession as well. Is it safe for me to say that they have abandoned him and i can take over ownership? I would love to keep the horse and they have not offered anything for me to keep him longer then the lease or made any attempts to contact me about keeping him longer. I don't want the horse going to the ASPCA because i would gladly keep him but i want some sort of paperwork so a year from now the people cant just come back and take him. May i add they were going to leave there other pony at their house they abandoned to starve so i placed him in a loving home and they left all of their ducks, geese, chickens and other birds to fend for themselvess. Their house was reposed and resold......so Im not sure what i can do. Cully i have contacted the people via phone and they always say they will get back to me and never do. And i feel the horse was not properly taken care of in the first place so why should they be able to get him back? ANd the guy has no documentation that the horse is his none of his papers are in his name just the breeder and mine and the breeder last had him in 06, the guy i got him from has had him about 3 years but doesnt have a bill of sale did not transfer name on the registration papers, never even got the horse a coggins so he has no vet records in his name. The guy lost his job so the horses were last on his list, i have done all the training and care.maitnence for the horse. He lost his house and ran from the collectors basically. But i feel that if i send them a letter they will have a friend in the area come take the horse. Its just a mess Marie i have tried to contace them to buy him even offered m ore then the horse is worth and they said no. But yet if they love him o so much why just leave him? Yes but Cully how can he prove that he owns the horse if none of the horses paperwork has his name on it? And i mean none of it. He has no bill of sale no coggins no vax records no farrier records nothing so how can he even owns the horse? I am not trying to pick just trying to build a case bfore i persue anything? The horse was born in NC in 95, and has been through a few owners that never tranfered the papers to their names either, he then ended up at new holland in 06 and since then has no paperwork. WHen i got him from them they gave me his whole file of all his papers. THe only reason i know all of this is from expired coggins tests. His registration papers still say he is a stud and belongs to the people that bred him 16 yearls ago lol. Basically i like the horse alot have put alot of training and time into him and he was being mistreated and i want to keep him, the people dont want to give him to me for whatever reason and i dont want him to go back to being mistreated he is a good boy. If they loved him so much why wernt they banging down my door when the lease was up to take him back? Instead they are too bust running from their bills and bad credit to 4 states away..... Megzter. I can get my vet to write something up per their condition when i got them as well for the farrier as their feet(including the horse i bought from them) were in bad shape. Both horses were thin and full of worms bad hair coats and at one point they had 5 horses on 1/2 acre of a dirt field. They started giving the horses away when people started to complain. THe hay they bought them wa gross and the grain was very plain and not often when they got it. They were full of worms and just not happy. Now tht they are on an exercise schedule and feeding schedule they look great. I was considering just semding the registration papers in and put him in my name and leave things at that since they have made no attempts to contact me its like they have no desire to want him back. I mean we had the lease but it is obviouly void since it is over with now. And dont they say possesion is 9/10ths of the law and if i have the horse his papers and vet records with a vet on my side then i dont thi think that there is much they can do can they? Its not like i stole the horse they know where he is and who has him. Where do i find an equine lawyer? The lease is basically a genaric lease just says that while i am caring for the horse is any sickness or injury would occur i am liable and i am liable for the well being of the animal while in my care and that if the horse is being abused or neglected the lease can be terminated early. But there are dates on it when the lease expired and when it started and they arnt good at keeping papers so i doubt they still have their copy after moving. I just feel like i am being used for free board and feed. I mean i dont mind if the horse is mine i have 5 others, but i dont want to feed a horse all winter then have to send him back in the spring when they feel like being owners again. I feel that if i envolve a lawyer they will just become pissed and give the horse to someone for spite, and i have put alot of money hard work and all into the horse to get him where he is today.....

Public Comments

Your absolute best bet is to talk to a lawyer (preferably one that specializes in equine or livestock law or something like that). It's a very tricky situation. At the very least, I'd send them an e-mail/letter (if you send an e-mail, request a "read receipt" so you have proof that they at least opened the e-mail) stating that if you do not hear back from them within seven days, you are going to consider the horse as abandoned and take over ownership. That way, if they ever try to take you to court, you at least have something in writing that says that you attempted to get the owners to take the horse back. If they say they never received an e-mail, you then produce the 'read receipt.' But again, I'd suggest talking to a lawyer if you don't want to be screwed later on. ADD: If you end up taking the horse and he decides he wants it back in a year or two, phone calls won't prove ANYTHING in court-you need written proof that you tried to give the horse back. They should be able to get the horse back because they legally OWN the horse. I'm not saying it's fair, but it is the way the world works. You have more of a chance since most of the recent documents are in your name, but he could easily say that you paying for everything was simply in the terms of the lease, and will most likely get the horse back. If he decides to have a friend come get the horse, that's his prerogative because, once again, it is HIS horse. I don't necessarily like it, but once again, that's just the way things work. ADD: I understand-didn't think you were being pick-y (: My guess is that, SOMEWHERE he has SOMETHING that says he paid for SOMETHING having to do with the horse. If he doesn't, he can always contact the breeder and ask for a bill of sale (albeit a long over-due one), or ask him/her to testify that he bought the horse from them. Another ADD: I honestly don't know what to tell you. If you simply take the horse, it could go either way as to what would be decided in court. I still recommend talking to a lawyer, since they could give you a much better idea of what you'd be getting yourself into than I (or anyone on here) can. It seems like you've given him a good life and put a lot of time/effort/money into him, and I'd hate to see all that go down the drain with poor legal planning. Good luck, and I hope it all works out for the two of you (:
it sounds to me like they didnt want the horse to begin with so you should try to contact them or a lawer and try to get to keep it, it shouldent have to go back to a place like that
It sounds like you are completely in the right and I'm glad the horse has someone to look after it. I would contact a lawyer who specialises in equine law and asked to be advised on what to do, even just sending an email.
A very difficult situation I can see that, and I understand your worries. A horse can be a financial burden but also a source of raising money and if they got desperate.......... Yes you need something concrete to protect yourself and the horse. Send them a letter, recorded delivery, and keep a copy. Ask them in the letter what they intend to do now that the lease is over. Stress several times that you would like to keep the horse, and will pay the market rate for him. But maybe before you do this speak to a solicitor and find out where you stand legally speaking. I know that you have all his papers etc and these people have no proof that the horse is theirs BUT this means in any case you will have to be dishonest and either claim you bought the horse from them or that they never owned him in the first place, because the minute you admit that he DOES legally belong to them, the law may be on their side. If you can do that (I'm not judging either way BTW) then that's fine, but it's risky if you get caught. I would also suggest speaking to an animal welfare officer or similar, anonymously. You could state a case that you 'rescued' this horse as far as you are concerned as he was neglected when you got him, and that you have cared for him ever since. Say that you wanted to buy him and they refused so you agreed to lease with view to buy him, and now that the lease is up they are not answering your communications. Do you have photo's etc of when he came? Of him maybe looking a bit worse for wear and of course you have the paperwork too, that could prove useful if you decide to go down the route that you rescued him from his old life. Proof of poor condition before and good condition after. IDK there's a couple of ideas but I would definitely get some solid legal advice on this. Good Luck. EDIT - Yes they do say that possession is 9/10th of the law and considering that they have effectively abandoned the horse etc you would have a pretty good case IMO, but it's the judge opinion that counts should they sue etc and that's what I mean by get something concrete so they can never take him away. Your vet and farrier idea is a good one. I just googled 'equine lawyer USA' and quite a few came up so I'd suggest doing that but adding your local area to the search.
What you need to do is send in a signed paper, or email saying that if they do not contact you by this date than your are considering that they abandoned it and you are taking ownership, and I think you can get it legally signed so it is a legal and you keep the horse if they do not get it by the date you wish. We had to do this after a man bought some trailers from us, and he had planned to pick them up and he never showed. Well we tried multiple ways of contact to reach him for months. Finally we got a letter sent to him saying if he did not pick it up by _____ date we are keeping the money ( yes he had already paid!) and the trailers will be sold to Someone else. We never received a call or anything so we put the trailers up for sale again and kept the $2000 he gave us!
Question. What does your lease say, just wondering..did they even give you a lease? --- This is what I would do: 1. Send them a certified letter. Say in it that you need to know what they want done with the horse..do they want to keep? Or are you keeping the horse. I would make if pretty formal. Make multiple copies. If the don't reply, send another saying its your last notice before hiring a lawyer. 2. Contact a lawyer, find out the laws in your state. 3. Keep EVERYTHING. From when your lease ended until (if) they pick up the horse. Add all food, meds, etc. Then if they decide that they want the horse back. Say you owe me 'x.xx amount' before you get your horse back. It has to be paid in full, before they can pick up the horse.
Talk to a lawyer first as property laws very per state. I'm guessing what they will do is help you write up a letter (send with proof of delivery) that as of date X that you will be charging X board, which will include farrier, standard vet, and worming. They have until date Y to remove the horse from the property or they will been accruing fees. Make sure these fees are reasonable for your area. After a few months past date X put a lien on the horse for back board and take ownership that way. It is perfectly legal and it is what many boarding barns do in when a boarder stops paying.
I would contact a lawyer. It sounds like they dumped the horse on you.